Kulturizmas.net diskusijų forumas

rolka78 rašė:

bzb rašė:

Cia siaip chebrai klausimas, kurie jau dares. Pirmas kursas 6 savaites propas/masteris/anavaras. Pct bus tamoxa provironas. Kurso metu sex drive pakyla, o kaip bus tik baigus kursa ir kaip pradejus pct? Matot grisiu namo, tai mergaiciu daug bus )

Tai kaip pirma kursa,nenori vien tik propo?antram kursui pabandysi su masteriu.Treciam dar kanors dadesi.
Mano galva taip butu logiskiau,nei iskart sokt ant 3 prepu.
Pct tai sakyciau standartas clomidas ir tamoxsa.Na dar vitamino E ,ZMA,dar kokio test bosterio.
Provirona tai gali irgi ,bet jis labiau laisva testa kelia. Bus maziau athodu,savijauta geraesne.

Klausimas rolka78. Perskaicius ju abieju aprasymus susidaro tokia nuomuone kad jie atlieka beveik ta pacia funkcija todel gal galetum placiau paaiskinti kodel juos kartu vartoti?
Kuo pvz clomidas su tamoxa pranasesnis arba ne uz pvz tamoxa su provironu?

eslife rašė:

Tuo, kad clomidas padeda atstatyti naturalu testa, o provironas atvirksciai - stabdo procesa. Nuo provirono pakyla libido ir visi isivaizduoja, kad cia atsistato naturalu testa savo, kai realiai tik save apgauni.

Bet juk ta pati daro ir tamoxa tai kam juos abu komponuoti i viena pct?

bzb rašė:

kelinta diena po paskutines injekcijos prop+masteris pradet tamoxa+provirona?

2-3d

Clomiphene (Clomid, Serophene, Omifin)

Clomiphene was originally developed to help treat female infertility caused by ovulatory dysfunction. It works in women by binding competitively to estrogen receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary. This causes an increased secretion of leutinizing hormone-releasing hormone as well as follicle-stimulating hormone-releasing hormone which in turn causes a release of LH and FSH. Did you follow that? These two hormones play key roles in the process of ovulation and maturation of the ovarian follicle, which is necessary to make a baby.

So, what the hell does this have to do with a bodybuilder? I’m sure most of you are already familiar with what I’m about to tell you. That is, clomiphene, which increases LH and FSH in women, can do the same in men. As we all know, LH is responsible for endogenous Testosterone production in men. This is a great thing for guys who’ve just come off a cycle which has shut down or limited the production of their endogenous T.

So, what else is great about this stuff? Well, you should also notice that while it binds to estrogen receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary, it does the same with breast tissue. When it does, this prevents endogenous estrogen from binding to the alpha receptor sites. The alpha receptors are those found with breast tissue.

What else? Well, it can improve blood lipid profiles to some extent. This is thought to be an inherent property of all anti-estrogens. It’s thought to occur because of clomiphene’s estrogen-like influence on the cardiovascular system, lowering low density lipoproteins in the plasma (1).

Oh, and one more thing. Yes, clomiphene has been shown to increase LH and Testosterone, both total and free in normal and oligospermic men (dudes with low sperm count). But what about in men that have exercise-induced hypogonadism? The answer is that clomiphene can help them as well.

In one study, a 29-year-old male runner had reached a state of hypogonadism from overtraining, something that’s also commonly seen amongst bodybuilders. He received 50 mg of clomiphene daily for five weeks and afterward, reached normal levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone, both free and total. After four months of treatment, improvements were seen in muscle strength, daily morning erections, sense of well being, and energy (2).

I think it can be concluded that clomiphene is very effective at increasing LH and Testosterone levels. It’s good at preventing gynecomastia and can also improve blood lipid profiles.

So what dosages should be used? For the LH/Testosterone boosting effect, a dosage of 50 to100 mg per day. When using it as an anti-estrogen, you should employ larger dosages. Depending on what steroid you’re using and how much, you should use 50 to 300 mg per day during the cycle. It’s been shown that clomiphene is more effective for preventing and treating gynecomastia when higher dosages are used (3).

If you’re getting it the legit way, through your doctor, the price for the brand name Clomid is around nine to ten bucks per tab. The generic version is around four dollars per tab. Of course, a little bird told me that the street price is much lower and that many of the same, uh, business men, who sell steroids will sell clomiphene for around fifty cents to a dollar per tab.


Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)

Tamoxifen is also an anti-estrogen. It started out as a means of treatment for breast cancer. Tamoxifen works in a similar fashion to that of clomiphene in that it binds competitively to estrogen receptors throughout the body. It especially binds well to the alpha receptor that can promote breast tissue growth. It, like clomiphene, can increase LH and Testosterone, but not to the same extent.

One could guess that by using a higher amount of tamoxifen, you could achieve the same LH boosting effects as those seen with clomiphene. However, in one study, no difference was found in terms of LH and Testosterone levels when men were given either 5 or 10 mg daily or 20 mg daily (4). If, however, these levels were increased even higher to 40 to 80 mg, the results may have been different. For now though, I’d say clomiphene is the better of the two in terms of elevating LH and Testosterone.

What else is good about tamoxifen? It’s been shown to be beneficial to blood profiles by lowering LDL (5). It also has antioxidant properties as well as anti-yeast/viral effects. Last but not least, it’s been shown to be very effective at treating gynecomastia. With dosages of 40 mg per day it was shown to be effective in 80% of men with gyno. A dosage of 10 to 20 mg was also shown to be effective. (6,7) Personally, I’d use 20 to 40 mg per day if I wanted to prevent gyno. For an elevation in LH, however, I’d use around 80 to 100 mg per day. The half life of tamoxifen is five to seven days.

The cost for Nolvadex is around $1.80 per tablet while the generic brand is about twenty cents cheaper.

Tada daryk taip, kaip tau atrodo geriausia

Pacituokit man is to pateikto teksto kurioje vietoje parasyta jog jie veikia sinergiskai mano anglu kalba medicinine kuklesne gal ne viska teisingai supratau

As daugiau tylusis narys ir skaitineju daugiau ka patarinejat ir nebematau jog i pct butu itraukiamas provironas. Gal gali pakomentuoti kodel yra jo atsisakoma paskutiniu metu?

cia kur buvau imetes, tai to paties daktaro scally : daug mixed nuomoniu del provirono..

Dianabol (methandione, methandrostenolone, metandienone, and a host of other names) suppresses the HPTA. The use of dianabol in the hope that it will provide HPTA normalization is misguided. More details, later, can be provided, if requested.

However, a brief note on proviron. What evidence is there that proviron lacks androgenic activity. The literature presents this by the absence of proviron to influence significantly infertility, erythropoiesis, lipids, and sex hormones. Except for the obsessive compulsive that needs to take a substance, thus replacing an AAS with adverse HPTA effects with one that does not, proviron is a worthless AAS, useful for nothing. Proviron will not support or provide any basis for the return of HPTA function.

The quoted abstract from the study by Varma and Patel really does not give one any information. [Varma TR, Patel RH. The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men. Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1988;26:121-8.] The study is poor from the abstract alone. Please note that the statement, "Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated," refers unidentified group. The groups in the study include, "One hundred ten patients . . . had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients . . . had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone." Nowhere is there a group with elevated levels. Nonetheless, the cited effect is a "depressing effect" not stated as significant. Knowing the fluctuation in gonadotropin levels on testing even at a P<0.05 would not be meaningful. But it does go to the point that proviron has no adverse effect on the HPTA.

Mesterolone is useless for infertility. A year after the Varma study, 1989, the World Health Organization published a study demonstrating, "[n]o significant changes semen quality during the course of the study, apart from an increase in sperm concentration 3 months after the start of treatment. The increase was greatest among the placebo treated group, but did not differ significantly between treatment groups." [Mesterolone and idiopathic male infertility: a double-blind study. World Health Organization Task Force on the Diagnosis and Treatment of Infertility. Int J Androl 1989;12:254-64.]

In 1991, a study concludes, "Because similar semen improvement also occurred in the placebo controls, our findings cast doubt on the possible usefulness of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility." [Gerris J, Comhaire F, Hellemans P, Peeters K, Schoonjans F. Placebo-controlled trial of high-dose Mesterolone treatment of idiopathic male infertility. Fertil Steril 1991;55:603-7.]

These confirm an earlier study from 1983. [Wang C, Chan CW, Wong KK, Yeung KK. Comparison of the effectiveness of placebo, clomiphene citrate, mesterolone, pentoxifylline, and testosterone rebound therapy for the treatment of idiopathic oligospermia. Fertil Steril 1983;40:358-65.] Treatment with the mesterolone (100 mg/day) therapy did not result in a significant increase in the mean sperm concentration or pregnancy in the partners.

Proviron is useless in promoting erythropoiesis (formation of red blood cell elements) and bone formation (a mixed effect of testosterone through the androgen receptor and estradiol receptor), both evidence of androgenic activity. Mesterolone (100 mg/d) is ineffective in raising hemoglobin and hematocrit levels significantly from baseline in individuals with hypogonadism. The study cites that Mesterolone did not increase serum testosterone (but also did not mention that there is a decrease). [Jockenhovel F, Vogel E, Reinhardt W, Reinwein D. Effects of various modes of androgen substitution therapy on erythropoiesis. Eur J Med Res 1997;2:293-8.]

As recent as 2003, mesterolone (100 mg/d) for 6 months administered to hypogonadal males failed to significantly raise bone mineral density (BMD). Treatment with testosterone undecanoate (160 mg/d), testosterone enanthate 250 mg (every 21 days), or a single subcutaneous implantation of 1,200 mg crystalline testosterone did result in BMD increases. [Schubert M, Bullmann C, Minnemann T, Reiners C, Krone W, Jockenhovel F. Osteoporosis in male hypogonadism: responses to androgen substitution differ among men with primary and secondary hypogonadism. Horm Res 2003;60:21-8.]

Erythropoiesis and bone formation are positive aspects of androgens useful under certain clinical conditions. AAS consistently have adverse effects on lipid profiles that are generally observed as a decrease in HDL (good cholesterol). In 1999, twenty years after the study cited by MaxRep [Nikkanen V. Plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of normolipemic male patients with decreased fertility treated with mesterolone. Andrologia 1979;11:33-6.] proviron was found to adversely effect the lipid profile in hypogonadal men. The study by abstract analysis is hard to detail but an adverse effect of proviron is reported. Also, the study reports on serum testosterone levels with androgen treatments. Androgen substitution led to no significant increase of serum testosterone in the proviron group, subnormal testosterone in the testosterone undecanoate group, normal testosterone in the testosterone enanthate group, and high-normal testosterone in the crystalline testosterone group. The message is proviron did not affect the HPTA. [Jockenhovel F, Bullmann C, Schubert M, et al. Influence of various modes of androgen substitution on serum lipids and lipoproteins in hypogonadal men. Metabolism 1999;48:590-6.] The same author reports that proviron administration has no effect on serum FSH or testosterone. [Nikkanen V. The effects of mesterolone on the male accessory sex organs, on spermiogram, plasma testosterone and FSH. Andrologia 1978;10:299-306.]

I have said too much already. A further review of proviron literature will not change the use of proviron as an AAS for either anabolic or androgenic effects. Bottom line: Proviron is of no use for anything.

newone2 rašė:

Tai gerai dbr visi taip giriat ta clomida bet jis gi per akis kerta ar cia irgi kaip koks mitas ? Kuom zmonem tada keist clomida  pas kuriuos problemos su regejimu ?

Keli cia apako nuo jo?
gali but isimciu kad pablogeja regejimas tuo kartu,tai tik tiek.

newone2 rašė:

rolka78 rašė:

newone2 rašė:

Tai gerai dbr visi taip giriat ta clomida bet jis gi per akis kerta ar cia irgi kaip koks mitas ? Kuom zmonem tada keist clomida  pas kuriuos problemos su regejimu ?

Keli cia apako nuo jo?
gali but isimciu kad pablogeja regejimas tuo kartu,tai tik tiek.

Nu ar rasiau kad apako ?;D Nu tai jeigu tam kartui regejimas pablogeja o po kazkiek laiko atsistato tai tada puiku bet jeigu ne tai tikrai nekazka,..  Jeigu pas zmogu su regejimu problemu nera tai jam tas menkas pablogejimas bus nei silta nei salta. Bet jeigu pas zmogu akys ir taip silpnos ir dar per pct jas labiau nukankinsi tai zinai.

Na tokiam zmogui manau yra begale papildu akim.Kuriuos galbut po pct ir reiktu pavartoti.

ar reiktu daryt koki pct po 5propo suviu (100mg eod) ir vinstrol su anavaru laikyto 8 dienas po 50ed?
apsirgau tai galvoju nutraukt kursa...

Sveiki, kaip manot kaip tikslingiau būtu suvartot 5000IU/TV Hcg su tikslu įdarbint kiaušinius ?
Vartojimas 7 dienas 1 ampole , leidimas kekviena diena :pirma diena:1 padala/500tvantra diena:2 padalos/1000tvtrecia diena:1 padala/500tvketvirta diena:2 padalos/1000tvpenkta diena: 1 padala/500tvsesta diena:2 padalos/1000tvseptinta diena: 1 padala/500tv
AR:
500tv E3D/EOD/ED (čia būtu vienas iš vartojimo būdų, ne paeiliui ). pirmas vartojimo būdas yra rekomenduojamas vieno forumo dealerio, o antras tai iš to ką skaitinėjaus užsienio forumuose - ten  250-500tv yra kalama E3D tik , o kaip matot pirmame variante yra siūloma leisti kiek daugiau, tai svarstau ar nebus per daug

Dėkui už atsakyma , tada dar prie to paties - kur geriau leist : į riebalini audini (papilvėj) ar į raumeni? Nes kiek girdėjau yra leidžiama ir ten ir ten, tik kažin kaip su pasisavinimu ...
Ir su su kiek maximum injekcinio vandens ml galima maišyt veikliaja medžiaga?

Paskutinį kartą taisė Kaspa (2013-02-12 20:13)